Turkish Ground Troops Invade Syria.

Re: Turkish Ground Troops Invade Syria.

Postby Americalex » Mar 19, 2018 12:33 pm

Turned out to be a big bluster like Tikrit but they backed out when it came down to it. No Kobane 2 basically. Turkey says it will expand operations everywhere in north Syria and Iraq. I was surprised to say the least when I saw news this morning of pro-turkish militias looting Afrin. Oh it's over now? It seems like it hadn't even begun? It just goes to show how feckless Kurdish strategic leadership is.Why even bother stepping up a defense if it was all a bluff. They should have agreed to Russia's proposal for Syrian troops to take Afrin and vacate. Can't say I blame the commander for giving in tough. In Kobane ISIS was an assaulter that had no air capability, and the kurds had strong air support. The situation here being reversed... tactically it made sense not to die fruitlessly.
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Re: Turkish Ground Troops Invade Syria.

Postby Fat Tony » Mar 19, 2018 6:06 pm

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/world/russi ... -1.4518395

This and a 'mop & pail' article do not mention the Russian A.F.Major detonated a grenade at the end of the battle when he landed after ejecting. I guess narrative based journalism is alive & well in Kanada.

Almost sounds like he was working directly for Wagner? Happened over Ildib. Pilot was armed with Stechkin machine pistol & frag grenade apparently. He was flying a bombing mission in his Su-25. Bit of a grisly feel to the story. Lots of pics & footage on this incident.
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Re: Turkish Ground Troops Invade Syria.

Postby Fat Tony » Mar 20, 2018 12:08 am

eh
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Re: Turkish Ground Troops Invade Syria.

Postby Windwalker » Mar 20, 2018 2:20 pm

They should have agreed to Russia's proposal for Syrian troops to take Afrin and vacate.


No deals with Russia in Syria are worth the paper they are printed on. They make a deal one day, and drop bombs on your hospitals and electric grid the next day, all the time claiming Assad's support gives them some sort of magical power to do whatever they wish, like a school Principle looking the other way because the bully gives him a cut of stolen lunch-money, a ridiculous and childish arangment where Putin voluntarily makes himself a patsy to a weaker player like Assad. Ridiculous and childish, indeed, in the sense that no rational minded adult believes for one moment that borrowing Assad's "authority" (the only authority Russia has to even be present in Syria) has any legitimacy at this point. The fact that Syria has a seat at the UN is irrelevant considering he is currently a war-crimanal-at-large.... Putin exercising Assad's authority is a joke, the supposed authority doesn't exist.

Putin is the one backing a losing horse, why should his opinion count for anything at this point? Russia's primary purpose in Syria has become to spend as much money as possible on rebuilding the infrastructure they destroyed before being sent back to Moscow with their shit-covered tail between their legs.
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Re: Turkish Ground Troops Invade Syria.

Postby Americalex » Mar 20, 2018 7:18 pm

lol The same Russia that allows Turkey to bomb them
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Re: Turkish Ground Troops Invade Syria.

Postby Windwalker » Mar 21, 2018 5:00 pm

Image
http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/uploads/Maps/Syria%20Conflict/Russian-Strategy-Syria-map-HiRes.pdf

^^^
I think when taking a serious look at Russia's interest in Syria it is valuable to look at their original objective.

They were ready to concede territory to Turkey and make a deal with the Kurds from the start, and also had an intent to only "contain" most of the pockets of rebel held area.... As long as they get to keep their air and naval bases on the coast, and their new base inland (the same one the US sent a battery of Tomahawks into, coincidentally, since then) so it's not like Russia was offering much but concessions to begin with.

I think at this point what is really being fought over is who will have physical control of the key positions in the new economic situation post Assad. For Russia, it is key the Allowites stay in power with or without him.
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Re: Turkish Ground Troops Invade Syria.

Postby Windwalker » Mar 24, 2018 10:52 pm

https://www.defensenews.com/global/mideast-africa/2018/01/15/russia-and-us-engage-in-military-base-race-in-syria/

The Russian military presence in Syria is based on an agreement signed between the legitimate internationally recognized Syrian government of Assad and the Russians, under which Russia built two permanent bases for an indefinite period of time. Russian President Vladimir Putin has signed a law ratifying a deal with the Syrian government allowing Russia to keep its air base in Syria for almost half a century, according to July 2017 documents.

“Syria is located in a strategic position – it is the gateway to the Middle East and the Gulf; this is why we witness such a competition in sharing influence, not the least of which [involves] constructing military bases,” said retired Lebanese armed forces general Wehbe Katicha. “Note that the Russian arms had a huge increase in exports after the operations in Syria.”

Russia showed its military capabilities in Syria from fighter jets to air defense systems and it used the Syrian conflict as a trial field for its arms. Syria was a defense and military show to start exporting arms to the Gulf and Middle East, and the Saudi S-400 Triumph agreement with Russia is a direct result of this show.

The West tends to ignore the success of the Russian military intervention in Syria, and pays little attention to the various aspects of Russian military activity in that country. Clearly, this is not a pleasant topic for the Western political and military observers whose predictions that Putin would get bogged down in Syria have proved wrong...

...

“The strategic influence of Syria is at the [core[ of the ‘military base race,’ where we witness a competition between major countries to prove their military presence,” he said. “Moreover, Russia is trying to come back as a great power in the region; this is [the reason for] risking extending its military presence in Syria, even though it knows that asymmetric threats might constitute an obstacle.”


I kind of like this guy's take on things, too. Putin is like an old boxer who goes into the ring knowing he is outmatched just to teach some young punk a tough lesson about Tenacity and Perseverance, hallmark traits of most everyone raised in Russian Culture, or so I am told.

At any rate, we are riding on Russian public support for Trump and the Republicans in the US both jumping 30 points with the crap the Dems are pulling right now trying to blame Mother Russia for their petty little schoolyard bullshit. Talk about living in a f-ing bubble. Anywho, lets just hope we (the US and Russia) can keep being "friends" with each other until this whole thing cools off a bit in Syria, thats my personal take on it. I could care less about Russia's 50 dollar lease from the Allowites, we should just dissolve the Syrian Regime and be done with it, and just let Russia have the land as Russian bases are on as Russian Territory instead, that would end this little shit-show right quick I think (Of course, there could probably be some long term negative side effects from something like that, not least of which the folks who currently "own" the land.
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Re: Turkish Ground Troops Invade Syria.

Postby Fat Tony » Mar 25, 2018 10:12 pm

“Syria is located in a strategic position – it is the gateway to the Middle East and the Gulf; this is why we witness such a competition in sharing influence, not the least of which [involves] constructing military bases,” said retired Lebanese armed forces general Wehbe Katicha. 


I thought the gateway to the Middle east was Afghanistan. I see 'and the Gulf. '

These Wagner ppl. are supposed to be the outer edge of radical right wing Russians. Not sure where I read that, probably another thread like this one. When they sent them down as the Slavic Corps, they were provided with all sorts of toys. As of late all the fancy toys were supposedly taken back by Moscow. They send Wagner ppl. to unload the supply ships, pretty much 24/7 operation. Moscow sends stuff that is well past the use by date. Stories like the boxes are often disintegrating while being off loaded.
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Re: Turkish Ground Troops Invade Syria.

Postby Windwalker » Mar 28, 2018 3:25 am

Ya I have had that experience myself first-hand... unloading crates of Soviet-era rifles (some of which had been packed up for decades) and trying to find serial numbers when there are models from every country in the world that has produced them at some point, and after getting all the cosmolene off that is caked all over them, attempting to figure out what percentage of them are usable (many of them often are brand new looking like they have never been fired, because they haven't been, they don't function).

And my other favorite one, boots that look like real combat boots like the ones the US Soldiers were issued back in the black leather boots days... only the first time they get wet the soles disintegrate because they are made out of some sort of cardboard-like material instead of rubber.

Hope the Saudis have fun with their new deal with Russia!
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Re: Turkish Ground Troops Invade Syria.

Postby Fat Tony » Mar 28, 2018 10:07 pm

I guess Canadian Tire must be getting those hexagonal & round receiver Mosin Nagants from somewhere lol. MFS ammo is now gone. MFS or Barnaul was one of the better sources of Russian made ammo for those rifles. Not anymore with the sanctions. Been mulling the idea of scarfing up some boxes while the existing supply remains or just going for the Chinese stuff that we are awash with.

Interestingly the Brits had a terrible problem in the Falklands war with those type of boots. They were falling off the feet of the soldiers in short order. Bad situation as that was the only means of transport for them. Sounds like they were made of poor quality Naugahyde leather(?)
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Re: Turkish Ground Troops Invade Syria.

Postby Windwalker » Mar 30, 2018 12:30 am

hard to say... most of the crap they were sending me came through local supply runs, not US military ones... the lock and seal on the shipping containers would still be good when it got to me, but you could see evidence where someone had taken the entire doors off at the hinge. The numbers of stuff was still usually right, but somehow uniforms magically turn into 3XL and extra-small from regular and large (go figure).

The crappy boots were supposed to be the real ones that actually came from the US, but the Afghans I work with were insisting they were Pakistan produced imitations (thus why they were fake... I think we were paying some ridiculous amount for them like $350 a pair. (my guess is someone somewhere was switching them out between New York harbor and Khandahar).

_________

But try and explain that to a NATO staff Officer who sits behind a desk all day in Kabul and who writes his own performance reviews... "Nothing wrong on MY shift, Sir! Ready for that promotion now!" (f-ing officers)

As the financial interests of the West continue to pour into reckless, terrorist infested, corrupt garbage holes that Pahkistan, and we expect starving, ill equipped, non-payed peasants that still haven't achieved full Civil Rights to do our fighting for us to save the overhead here at home dealing with Veterans expenses... sad that mos people on our side of the fight don't even realize that in many real ways, WE are the bad-guys (or at least the funding and drive behind the force that keeps them in power.) ..... Eh..
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Re: Turkish Ground Troops Invade Syria.

Postby Windwalker » Mar 30, 2018 3:40 am

"Archers, Sire?"
"No. Arrows cost money. Use up the Irish first, the dead will cost us nothing!"



C:|
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Re: Turkish Ground Troops Invade Syria.

Postby Americalex » Apr 03, 2018 2:16 pm

Putin, Erdogan launch Turkey's 1st nuclear reactor
Washington Post 3h ago

Russia to accelarate delivery of S-400 systems to Turkey
From Turkey Daily Sabah 7m ago

Russia, China, Iran, Turkey. It makes sense considering the turkic peoples of the former soviet republics.
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Re: Turkish Ground Troops Invade Syria.

Postby Windwalker » Apr 04, 2018 9:20 pm

Americalex wrote:Putin, Erdogan launch Turkey's 1st nuclear reactor
Washington Post 3h ago

Russia to accelarate delivery of S-400 systems to Turkey
From Turkey Daily Sabah 7m ago

Russia, China, Iran, Turkey. It makes sense considering the turkic peoples of the former soviet republics.


A union of this magnitude would leave China extremely ripe for Democratic Revolution... it might even happen spontaneously.
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Re: Turkish Ground Troops Invade Syria.

Postby Windwalker » Apr 04, 2018 9:31 pm

Image

A Democratic China would be cool, we could split-up control of the section of our Continental Plate that is currently occupied by Russia between ourselves and China as a tip-of-the-hat to our new friends in China.

Russia has already set a new precedent for making territorial claims based on the edge of the Continental Plate... therefore, the former "Soviet Far East" belongs to us here in North America, and Russia proper is organically a part of the rest of Europe. Russia seams determined to end its own existence one way or the other.

------

On a more abstract note, it actually would make sense for us to start organizing nation-blockes along the continental plates. Eventually, land will form stretching from the northern tip of Japan to the tip of the Aleutian Islands, and along the Islands connecting with Alaska. Granted, this is very, very far in the future, but why not start forming our economies more in line with the land they sit upon? do we really need highways and pipelines zig-zagging back and forth across the world's most earthquake zones, anyway? When they could have just as easily gone around?
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Re: Turkish Ground Troops Invade Syria.

Postby Windwalker » Apr 05, 2018 10:23 pm

^^^^^^^

Don't let the parameters of that map projections fool you, either, the North American, Eurasian, South American, African, and Australian plates are all pretty comparable in size.

We could allow Hawaii to revert back to the Queen, and she could rule the entire Pacific Region with close economic and political ties to North America based on our history together. Maybe, the "United Kingdoms of Hawaii and the Pacific" or "Ukeihapa, Blessed lands of the Sea," (U.K.Ha.Pa) . It would be the largest Kingdom in the world, but with the least landmass.

--------

EDIT: by "Queen" I mean one who is a living next-of-kin to this Hero that lost Hawaii, but also may have saved it:
Image

Liliuokalani's statement yielding authority, on January 17, 1893, protested the overthrow:

I Liliuokalani, by the Grace of God and under the Constitution of the Hawaiian Kingdom, Queen, do hereby solemnly protest against any and all acts done against myself and the Constitutional Government of the Hawaiian Kingdom by certain persons claiming to have established a Provisional Government of and for this Kingdom.

That I yield to the superior force of the United States of America whose Minister Plenipotentiary, His Excellency John L. Stevens, has caused United States troops to be landed at Honolulu and declared that he would support the Provisional Government.

Now to avoid any collision of armed forces, and perhaps the loss of life, I do this under protest and impelled by said force yield my authority until such time as the Government of the United States shall, upon facts being presented to it, undo the action of its representatives and reinstate me in the authority which I claim as the Constitutional Sovereign of the Hawaiian Islands.
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Re: Turkish Ground Troops Invade Syria.

Postby Fat Tony » Apr 08, 2018 9:45 pm

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/trump-s ... -1.5750503

An older Haaretz article. Did a pretty good job of clearing the smoke.

Noticed the traditionally dressed band performing for Turk troops 'entering former Ottoman lands' well they don't have a Suleiman the Magnificent to lay down the law.

I fully expect that American & French (Brit?) wheels are turning behind the scenes in the region. There must also be a reading of the riot act going on in private. The Turks will never publicize this of course. Musn't lose face at all costs. America is the father of NATO. There will be adjustments of some sort.

Interesting. Uk opens military base in Bahrain, ostensibly to build up their naval presence in the Persian Gulf. US opens two bases in Syria.

Turkey has kidnapped (sorry, sought the extradition of) 80 citizens from 18 *unnamed* countries in pursuit of persons of interest in 2016 coup attempt. I hope that is not under some NATO provision. The Turks are making a point of saying they have done it in a legal, ethical way. Sounds like a bunch of bumfodder.
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Re: Turkish Ground Troops Invade Syria.

Postby Fat Tony » Apr 08, 2018 10:47 pm

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combine ... nt_Resolve

The Coalition has not wound down yet we are at over three years and counting. There is some mention that non Turkish NATO forces were moved into Turkey to protect Turkey against hostile ISIS/ ISIL/Daesh air attacks. If they are still there, doesen't this place these same non Turkish NATO forces in Turkey in an akward situation? I would be sleeping with a couple grenades, pistol, service rifle, and rocks, wires & tin cans, machete, barbed poison snap off daggers, etc. Would not trust Turks to respect our lines for sure.
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Re: Turkish Ground Troops Invade Syria.

Postby Windwalker » Apr 09, 2018 5:44 am

The Turks will never publicize this of course. Musn't lose face at all costs. America is the father of NATO. There will be adjustments of some sort


Once again, I think you nailed it with this comment. The true power behind NATO, after-all, is the US nuclear arsenal. The Communists would have taken all of Europe long ago without its presence.

Turkey is a non-nuclear country, no matter how much they build their conventional force all turning on the Coalition would actually profit them would be to give the Coalition forces a green light to start occupying "Turkish" territory.

Turkey has a choice in this world... a choice between staying with NATO, and with ceasing to exist in its current form.

----------

On a more abstract note, that could be a (albeit evil genius) way to get the US and Canada closer together politically and militarily... The US could withdraw from NATO and invite Russia to occupy Western Europe. A Russia-dominated Western Europe could be a boon for increased cooperation and an influx of immigration here in North America like the world has never seen. We would outpace them even faster than we already are now.
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Re: Turkish Ground Troops Invade Syria.

Postby Fat Tony » Apr 09, 2018 11:16 am

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/turkish-sp ... -1.4606033


^Here is a cbc article mentioning the supposedly legal and aboveboard 'secret snatchings' by Turkey. Note that Kosovo's Prime minister fired both his interior minister & intelligence chief for cooperating with the Turks behind his back on this.
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