self-determination plebiscites in US territories 2016

Re: self-determination plebiscites in US territories 2016

Postby -MM- » Jan 14, 2015 1:53 pm

The only reason I had mentioned Greenland is because I thought it was interesting that apparently some of their own people seem to think that they'd be better off today as a US state (I agree with the assessment). I wasn't inferring that they would be annexed to the US anytime soon. I think their people want a resolution to their current status (much like the people of Puerto Rico), but they have a long, hard road to resolve it with Denmark. I would be in favor of Greenland as part of the union, but it's not something that I expect to happen, especially not anytime soon.

I just had a talk about US-Canada merging/annexing with my uber driver the other day and she brought up the good point of Canada still having a queen (and when she dies, a king) that reigns over them. That would ultimately hinder such an union. I kind of tend to agree with that. Curious what other folks think about this.

Regarding Mexico, I only see the Northern mexican states joining after some kind of recession or separation from those states. I also don't think the union would accept their request to join unless they cleaned up their place first. Furthermore I think a situation such as Mexico going into recession and selling states like Baja California, Baja California Sur, Sonora etc is a possibility. I'm not sure how much work it would take to get those states out of the slums and into, but we'll have to see what happens once Puerto Rico joins.

Speaking of PR, there's been some big movements happening recently. Puerto Ricans were in front of the White House demanding, Pedro Pierluisi has already spoken twice to congress requesting a resolution, and even wrote a letter to Obama. I believe another PR representative wrote a letter to Obama as well. We might see a federal binding "Yes or No" referendum on Puerto Rico that will determine the future of the island very soon.
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Re: self-determination plebiscites in US territories 2016

Postby eyzmin » Jun 01, 2015 1:27 am

Forgot about this. To specifically answer the Greenland question, the U.S. offered Denmark one hundred million dollars for it in 1946 and they declined. Update on the plebiscites. Still no word on the Puerto Rico date. On May 8 2015 the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals reinstated A lawsuit filed by Arnold Davis claiming that the rules for registering for Guams Plebiscite are discriminatory and violate the constitution. The lawsuit was originally thrown out in 2013 on the grounds that his rights hadn't been violated yet as the vote has yet to happen, he then filed for appeal. Currently the rules state that only someone who was in Guam or who's ancestors were in Guam when the 1950 Organic act of Guam was passed. Davis argues that this discriminates against someone of non-Chamorro descent. While mainly true, they could be of any race, as long as they were residents of Guam prior to 1950 or who's ancestors were. Most likely all this is going to do is delay the plebiscite a few more years. Updates to come as I hear them
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Re: self-determination plebiscites in US territories 2016

Postby Windwalker » Jun 01, 2015 11:21 am

eyzmin wrote:To specifically answer the Greenland question, the U.S. offered Denmark one hundred million dollars for it in 1946 and they declined.


They were wise to do so. While this would likely have knocked a big chunk out of what they owed the US at the end of the war, Greenland today has an annual GDP more than 20 times that amount... 4 times that amount in just fishing. And lets not forget that Greenland has unexploited mineral wealth, too, and all this with a workforce of only 40k workers.

100 million, even in 1946 dollars, was most definitely a lowball offer.
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Re: self-determination plebiscites in US territories 2016

Postby BC_Dan » Dec 13, 2015 8:44 am

Barging in on an old discussion:

I've always tended to think of the Revolutionary War as just one battle that France won in its ongoing war against England. And to that end, have always thought of Benjamin Franklin as the Greatest American for negotiating King Louis' support. Without French support -- naval support in particular -- the rebels would almost certainly have lost, and the revolutionary cause might have become a minor footnote in history, as it was never all that popular among the colonists anyway.

In the end, the expense of the ongoing war ended up costing Louis his head, but c'est la vie,
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Re: self-determination plebiscites in US territories 2016

Postby Americalex » Dec 13, 2015 2:06 pm

The way I see it, pedo-satanists take over England, behead catholic king, tumult and civil war, atrocities, barbarity.
American colonies not affected, but start to feel the pinch and want to free themselves from the growing oppression.
British monarchy restored with veneer of christianity but tumult remains.
Americans seek independence, gain help of France.
Americans win independence through France military and logistical assistance.
Pedo-satanists start taking shit over in France.
Vendee genocide, atrocities, barbarity, etc.
France becums preeminent center of humanism,
French nation subjected to countless humiliations, traumas, instability, decline since then.
Let's face it, islamo-humanity is hellbent on genociding judeo-christendom.
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Re: self-determination plebiscites in US territories 2016

Postby eyzmin » Feb 25, 2017 11:56 pm

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/02/03 ... ehood.html.

I said I would come back and update, June 11 2017, Puerto Rico will have its Final Sovereignty Referendum, In or Out, State or Independent(Free Association on the table), no more Territory. This is an opportunity for the pro-Unionists, any discussion of expanding the Union will inevitably lead to some discussion in Canada. This momentum could be seized upon, especially if the result is Statehood
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Re: self-determination plebiscites in US territories 2016

Postby eyzmin » Feb 26, 2017 12:07 am

Following up on that with some clarification and further thought, Anyone who wants America and Canada to be one country, should do all they can to help Puerto Rico become a state and/or spread the awareness of this process happening to raise discussion of this in Canada. As to what would be the next best move, is to try and prop up the Guyana Statehood movement online if PR makes it to keep discussion and mood on the idea of an Expanding , Strong, United American Nation. Guyana having very pro-American attitudes and almost half a million citizens living in America out of 700,000 back in Guyana, it would be the most achievable Nation to bring into the Union to set a precedent and undoubtedly make world news for a long time and start multiple discussions. Puerto Rico could be a domino that starts the whole chain, but we must do what we can(not really much) to help it along.
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Re: self-determination plebiscites in US territories 2016

Postby Windwalker » Feb 27, 2017 3:40 am

I find it rediculous that another vote even needs to take place. Both the US and the UN have recognized votes in the past written precisely like the one from 2012.

(You know, the one where 54% said they didn't want to be a territory anymore on the first question, and 62% chose Statehood on the second question.)

Anyway, at least the 2017 bill is being posed by the Federal Government instead of by the Territorial government in PR, so Congress would be neglegent for not acting on it this time. It is a safe assumption (considering PR just elected an avid Statehood advocate for Governor) that strong support for Statehood has not faltered in the last 5 years.

-------------

P.S. the only demographic in the US that does not support Statehood for PR is 20-35 year old hispanic males, and their opposition is within the margin of error (then again over 50% of Americans don't even know PR is part of the US, so the polling data is useless. There will undoubtedly be an "awakening" of sorts in America when PR becomes a State, rather it will be a short lived phenomena or e beginning of a new direction remains to be seen.)
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Re: self-determination plebiscites in US territories 2016

Postby -MM- » Mar 01, 2017 3:04 am

eyzmin wrote:Following up on that with some clarification and further thought, Anyone who wants America and Canada to be one country, should do all they can to help Puerto Rico become a state and/or spread the awareness of this process happening to raise discussion of this in Canada. As to what would be the next best move, is to try and prop up the Guyana Statehood movement online if PR makes it to keep discussion and mood on the idea of an Expanding , Strong, United American Nation. Guyana having very pro-American attitudes and almost half a million citizens living in America out of 700,000 back in Guyana, it would be the most achievable Nation to bring into the Union to set a precedent and undoubtedly make world news for a long time and start multiple discussions. Puerto Rico could be a domino that starts the whole chain, but we must do what we can(not really much) to help it along.


I have known about PR's referendum for awhile, Rosello is really pro statehood as is Gonzalez, the Resident Commissioner. Rosello ran primarily on statehood and - just like Trump - is delivering. I was worried at first that PR would be a really blue state, but I think they will be solidly purple.

Here is a couple of links for the plebiscite. The second link contains the fully translated language that will be on the ballot.

http://www.puertoricoreport.com/upcomin ... LZutPkrLIW
http://www.puertoricoreport.com/wp-cont ... 7-2017.pdf

Worth noting it's not a binding referendum and Congress can just sit on it. Rosello is going to pick 2 senators and 5 house representatives and go to Congress to demand acceptance, if they vote on statehood again.

I also agree that PR statehood will help with the talk about Canadian statehood movements, especially as they become more and more cucked with Trudeau there. The real alpha males and females will be fed up with the way Trudeau is destroying their country and will want to GTFO.

Next steps would be helping our brothers and sisters in Quebec and Alberta, the two provinces that are a bit more fed up with Trudeau's crap, from what I can tell. Maybe even all the western provinces as well. I am also curious about the Guyana pro statehood movement. Can you point me to it? I would like to check it out.

I ask you and others here to join Parti51, spread the word there and help them out (they are just getting started and need help getting the word out. Alex started getting involved, but not sure how in depth he got). Here is more info on it:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9879

Would be funny if PR gets 51 first and then they would have to change their party name lol. PR joining and keeping/maintaining their spanish language and heritage would go a long way towards showing quebecois the power that the states have. One could also show them the 10th and the 11th amendments.

Hopefully a domino effect does happen! You are definitely right that we can't help much. We can't donate to parti51, for example, and we can't vote for PR's referendum. All we can do is get the word out, encourage folks, speak from a voice of reason, and help with any questions/concerns.
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Re: self-determination plebiscites in US territories 2016

Postby Windwalker » May 05, 2017 12:07 pm

http://gaitherinternational.com/among-puerto-rico-residents-with-an-opinion-a-majority-would-favor-statehood/
Almost all key demographic groups would stand in favor of statehood for Puerto Rico, Gaither reported. The only exceptions were respondents ages 55 and older, whereby only 49% of them said they wanted statehood. By comparison, 69% of respondents between the ages of 18 and 54 said they would favor statehood.


I thought this bit of demographic information was relevant considering Trump's recent tweets, in which he stated strong opposition to Democrats recent attempts to "bail out" medicare in Puerto Rico. Puerto Ricans on the medicare rolls will be faced with the following choice next month:

1. Vote "yes" in support of Puerto Rico becoming the 51st and retaining the status quo regarding their medical benefits.

2. Continue supporting "no" to Statehood, and be forced to move to the mainland to continue receiving medicare benefits.

----------------

The traditional school of thought of "reaping extra federal benefits by remaining a colony in limbo" held-onto by only the older generation is about to come to an abrubt halt, as the harsh reality of the situation now threatens to hit them in their own pockets and/or living situation in a much more tangible way.
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