US House approves Keystone, Obama tries to delay until 2014

US House approves Keystone, Obama tries to delay until 2014

Postby Hephaestos » May 22, 2013 8:08 pm

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/05 ... line-bill/

House approves Keystone pipeline bill
Published May 22, 2013
Associated Press

WASHINGTON – House Republicans pushed through a bill Wednesday to bypass the president to speed approval of the Keystone XL oil pipeline from Canada to Texas. Democrats criticized the legislation as a blatant attempt to allow a foreign company to avoid environmental review.

The bill was approved, 241-175, largely along party lines.

Republicans said the measure was needed to ensure that the long-delayed pipeline, first proposed in 2008, is built.

"This is the most studied pipeline in the history of mankind," said Rep. Lee Terry, R-Neb., the bill's sponsor.

"When is enough enough?" added Rep. Jeff Denham, R-Calif. "Five years? Six years? Ten years?"

But Rep. Raul Grijalva, D-Ariz., called the bill a "reckless attempt to avoid environmental review." The bill would deem the project approved without a presidential permit, as required under current law, and with no further environmental review. The legislation also would limit legal challenges to the project.

The White House says President Barack Obama opposes the bill because it would "circumvent longstanding and proven processes" by removing the requirement for a presidential permit.

The $7 billion pipeline, proposed by Calgary-based TransCanada, would carry oil extracted from tar sands in western Canada to refineries along the Texas Gulf Coast. The 1,700-mile pipeline would travel though Montana, South Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas and Oklahoma on its way to refineries in Houston and Port Arthur, Texas.

Supporters say the pipeline would create thousands of jobs, help lower fuel prices and bolster North American energy resources.

Opponents call the project a "carbon bomb" that would carry "dirty oil" that could trigger global warming. They also worry about a spill. Converting tar sands into oil can uses as much as 15 percent more energy than conventional oil production.

Obama has twice thwarted the pipeline project amid concerns about a proposed route through environmentally sensitive land in Nebraska, even as the White House approved a southern portion of the project from Oklahoma to Texas. The bill approved by the House would apply to an 875-mile portion of the pipeline from Canada to Nebraska.

The State Department, which has completed more than 15,000 pages of environmental review on the proposed pipeline over the years, said in a draft report this spring that the project was unlikely to cause significant environmental impact to most resources along the planned route. The report also said other options to move the oil from Canada to Gulf Coast refineries, such as trucks or rail cars, would be far worse for climate change.

The State Department expects to issue a final report this summer. The department has authority over the pipeline because it crosses a U.S. border.

This latest attempt to speed the pipeline marks at least the fourth time the House has tried to do so.

Rep. Fred Upton, R-Mich., defended the House actions, even though the Keystone bill is unlikely to be taken up by the Democratic-controlled Senate.

"There may be a few of my colleagues who are tired of Keystone bills, but the American people are also tired -- tired of $3.70 a gallon gasoline, tired of unemployment above 7 percent, and tired of four years of delays that continue to block this critical jobs and energy project," Upton said.
The truth is like a lion, you don't have to defend it. Let it loose, it will defend itself. - St. Augustine of Hippo
User avatar
Hephaestos
Supporter
 
Posts: 1753
Joined: Apr 17, 2012 10:05 pm
Location: New York

Re: US House approves Keystone, Obama tries to delay until 2

Postby Hephaestos » May 22, 2013 8:15 pm

http://grist.org/news/obama-may-delay-k ... ntil-2014/

Obama may delay Keystone decision until 2014
By Lisa Hymas

The Obama administration has been procrastinating on its decision on the Keystone XL pipeline for years — and now comes word that it may kick the can even further down the road. From Reuters:
The Obama administration is unlikely to make a decision on the Canada-to-Nebraska Keystone XL pipeline until late this year as it painstakingly weighs the project’s impact on the environment and on energy security, a U.S. official and analysts said on Friday.
The decision may not be made until November, December or even early 2014, said a U.S. official … who did not want to be named given the sensitive nature of the project.
Analysts agreed that a decision would not be made by this summer as the State Department had suggested when it issued an environmental review on the pipeline on March 1.
If Obama can just delay until Jan. 20, 2017, then finally it’ll be somebody else’s problem.
The truth is like a lion, you don't have to defend it. Let it loose, it will defend itself. - St. Augustine of Hippo
User avatar
Hephaestos
Supporter
 
Posts: 1753
Joined: Apr 17, 2012 10:05 pm
Location: New York

Re: US House approves Keystone, Obama tries to delay until 2

Postby Hephaestos » May 22, 2013 8:20 pm

http://business.financialpost.com/2013/ ... =b2e1-4b2d

Does Joe Biden oppose Keystone XL?
Jim Snyder, Bloomberg News | 13/05/08 | Last Updated: 13/05/08 1:03 PM ET

A Sierra Club volunteer in South Carolina said United States Vice President Joe Biden appeared to indicate his opposition to TransCanada Corp.’s Keystone XL in a brief conversation with her last week.

Elaine Cooper, a environmental activist with the state’s Sierra Club chapter, said in a blog post that she asked Biden if the administration was serious about addressing climate change and if President Barack Obama would reject the pipeline, which would carry diluted bitumen from Alberta to refineries in the U.S. Gulf Coast.

“He looked at the Sierra Club hat on my head, and he said ’yes, I do – I share your views – but I am in the minority,’ and he smiled,” Cooper wrote in the blog posted on the Sierra Club’s website.

Cooper said she talked briefly to Biden at a May 3 fish fry sponsored by Representative James Clyburn, a South Carolina Democrat, in Columbia, the state capital. The conversation took place as Biden was shaking hands with supporters along a rope line.

The exchange was previously reported by website Buzzfeed.

Erich Pica, president of the Washington-based environmental group Friends of the Earth, said in a written statement, “Vice President Biden is to be commended for his blunt talk.”

Michael Brune, executive director of the San Francisco- based environmental group, also issued a statement and said that Biden’s comments were encouraging.

Critics say Keystone will exacerbate climate change by promoting development of the Alberta oil sands, which releases more greenhouse gases than other most production of more conventional crude oil.

Biden’s office referred to a March 2012 interview in which Biden said the decision “will be made in an environmentally sound basis” after a process is completed.

“The Vice President has made his views known on this issue and his views haven’t changed,” according to a statement from his office.

A State Department draft environmental analysis said the climate risks were minimal because the development in Alberta would happen with or without Keystone.
The truth is like a lion, you don't have to defend it. Let it loose, it will defend itself. - St. Augustine of Hippo
User avatar
Hephaestos
Supporter
 
Posts: 1753
Joined: Apr 17, 2012 10:05 pm
Location: New York

Re: US House approves Keystone, Obama tries to delay until 2

Postby Americalex » May 23, 2013 8:13 am

It is obvious that the opposition is grasping at victory, but I wonder, would the policy position of these democrats have been different if the Canadian provinces had been American states? Or would they have opposed it anyway, on the grounds presented concerning there appprehension of encouraging any activity which generates emissions?
User avatar
Americalex
Supporter
 
Posts: 20166
Joined: Aug 27, 2004 2:48 am
Location: Quebec

Re: US House approves Keystone, Obama tries to delay until 2

Postby Hephaestos » May 23, 2013 9:00 pm

Americalex wrote:It is obvious that the opposition is grasping at victory, but I wonder, would the policy position of these democrats have been different if the Canadian provinces had been American states? Or would they have opposed it anyway, on the grounds presented concerning there appprehension of encouraging any activity which generates emissions?


The jury is still out on that question, liberals are complete enviromental fanatics who worship the Earth and hate all real energy like oil. However the repeated anti-Canadian tendencies of the far-left as seen in their positions on "buy american", softwood lumber, Northwest passage, the ambassador bridge, passports and so forth make me think that this keystone debacle could be a double bonanza for liberals as they can express their intense hatred of both Canada and oil at the same time.
The truth is like a lion, you don't have to defend it. Let it loose, it will defend itself. - St. Augustine of Hippo
User avatar
Hephaestos
Supporter
 
Posts: 1753
Joined: Apr 17, 2012 10:05 pm
Location: New York

Re: US House approves Keystone, Obama tries to delay until 2

Postby MrSG1 » May 23, 2013 10:47 pm

Just wondering, what do you mean by equating the "ultra-left" and the Ambassador Bridge and Passports. The latter issue first came around sometime in 2005 I believe, prior to when the "Ultra-Left" had control.

The other side of the issue people don't see with the WHTI, is that it's not just Canadians being forced to demand passports, actually it demands passports from US citizens to re-enter the US, in a sense, Canada has unofficially made it a requirement for US citizens to present a passport at the Canadian border. (Although I'm not sure what happens if a US citizen doesn't have a passport or other WHTI compliant document when at the Canadian border).

What exactly is the current issue with the "Ambassador Bridge" it's a private bridge, there is no government involved.
User avatar
MrSG1
Supporter
 
Posts: 338
Joined: Oct 04, 2006 4:46 pm
Location: Ontario

Re: US House approves Keystone, Obama tries to delay until 2

Postby Hephaestos » May 23, 2013 11:03 pm

MrSG1 wrote:Just wondering, what do you mean by equating the "ultra-left" and the Ambassador Bridge and Passports. The latter issue first came around sometime in 2005 I believe, prior to when the "Ultra-Left" had control.

The other side of the issue people don't see with the WHTI, is that it's not just Canadians being forced to demand passports, actually it demands passports from US citizens to re-enter the US, in a sense, Canada has unofficially made it a requirement for US citizens to present a passport at the Canadian border. (Although I'm not sure what happens if a US citizen doesn't have a passport or other WHTI compliant document when at the Canadian border).


What I mean is that border controls at the U.S.-Canada frontier have been getting far more stringent ever since Obama came into office. It was much smoother five years ago but under Obama it has been tightened to the extent that you think you were driving across a militarized zone.

MrSG1 wrote:What exactly is the current issue with the "Ambassador Bridge" it's a private bridge, there is no government involved.

Obama has been quietly lobbying against it behind the scenes for several years now. He does this because he feels that increased commerce between Canada and the U.S. as a consequence of the new bridge will result in American job losses. Of course this is utter horse manure but Obama and his marxist sheeple actually believe it.
The truth is like a lion, you don't have to defend it. Let it loose, it will defend itself. - St. Augustine of Hippo
User avatar
Hephaestos
Supporter
 
Posts: 1753
Joined: Apr 17, 2012 10:05 pm
Location: New York

Re: US House approves Keystone, Obama tries to delay until 2

Postby CTMountaineer » Jun 07, 2013 5:49 pm

There are many who believe Keystone will not help Americans, will only provide jobs and benefits for Canadians and benefit the super rich who will disrupt America with the construction and maintenance and end up sending the oil to overseas, cheap labor countries.
User avatar
CTMountaineer
Opponent
 
Posts: 3199
Joined: Mar 01, 2006 12:26 am
Location: West Virginia

Re: US House approves Keystone, Obama tries to delay until 2

Postby Americalex » Jun 08, 2013 1:38 am

CTMountaineer wrote:There are many who believe Keystone will not help Americans, will only provide jobs and benefits for Canadians and benefit the super rich who will disrupt America with the construction and maintenance and end up sending the oil to overseas, cheap labor countries.

Opposition is not limited to within the United States, I'm pretty sure I heard British Columbia saying "there is enough in the deal to make it worthwhile" for them, so they are opposed to it passing through their province also.
User avatar
Americalex
Supporter
 
Posts: 20166
Joined: Aug 27, 2004 2:48 am
Location: Quebec

Re: US House approves Keystone, Obama tries to delay until 2

Postby Bearsy » Jun 08, 2013 4:11 pm

Extracting the oil from the oilsands is expensive. Alberta oil is expensive oil. It will be harder oil to sell, there is less profit to be made from it, and thats why (i think) USA and BC don't want (more of) it. There have been new discoveries of oil that are cheaper to extract and cheaper to refine. And other cheaper cleaner energy sources are emerging like natural gas and solar. The Tesla Model S looks like the car of the future! Even if not, demand for oil is inevitably going slow and the dirtiest and most expensive oil will be the first to go.

I think Alberta is the only one to really profit from new pipelines. And Alberta is in a damn hurry to get that oil out ASAP.

Eastern Canada though just might be desperate enough to accept the pipeline... but they'd be wise to take a serious look to see why USA and BC turned it down.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-bruns ... -1251.html
Radical Centrist
User avatar
Bearsy
Opponent
 
Posts: 2098
Joined: May 03, 2012 11:27 pm
Location: Alberta

Re: US House approves Keystone, Obama tries to delay until 2

Postby Americalex » Jun 08, 2013 7:46 pm

Bearsy wrote:Eastern Canada though just might be desperate enough to accept the pipeline... but they'd be wise to take a serious look to see why USA and BC turned it down.

Quebec & New-Brunswick depend on Ontario's willingness to allow existing or new pipes to be used for such purpose, so it will be interesting to see if Ontario blocks this. But the arctic territories have already mentioned that they totally welcome a new pipeline to the arctic sea, so in the end this is a failsafe should the Eastern option be vetoed by Ontario.
User avatar
Americalex
Supporter
 
Posts: 20166
Joined: Aug 27, 2004 2:48 am
Location: Quebec

Re: US House approves Keystone, Obama tries to delay until 2

Postby Americalex » Jul 05, 2013 11:30 am

I think since then Obama went on record as saying that he won't approve it if it means an increase in gas emissions, which of course it does. Alberta has also been rejected by B.C. when it comes to having a pipeline. Perhaps the solution will be a pipeline to the North and the Arctic, because as much as it makes mutual sense for the East to get it sent over here, all it takes is one anti-industrial government in one of the provinces between Alberta and Quebec to scuttle the concept..
User avatar
Americalex
Supporter
 
Posts: 20166
Joined: Aug 27, 2004 2:48 am
Location: Quebec

Re: US House approves Keystone, Obama tries to delay until 2

Postby Hephaestos » Sep 08, 2013 12:25 am

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09 ... tone-deal/

Canadian PM offers Obama possible climate action to secure Keystone deal
Published September 07, 2013
FoxNews.com

Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper has written to President Obama to say that he is prepared to work on a joint plan between the two countries to reduce carbon emissions, in an attempt to secure approval of the Keystone XL pipeline project, the Canadian Broadcasting Corp. reported Friday.

Harper reportedly wrote to Obama in late August, the Wall Street Journal reports, signaling his willingness to accept carbon-reduction targets proposed by the U.S. and to address concerns raised by the White House about Keystone and its impact on the environment.

The proposed Keystone XL project would carry heavy crude from Alberta to the U.S. Gulf Coast, and has triggered intense opposition from environmentalist groups concerned that it will contribute to climate change. The project is presently under review by the U.S. State Department, and will require final approval from President Obama.

Harper’s letter immediately triggered a strong reaction, with Thomas Pyle, President of the Institute for Energy Research in Washington D.C., slamming the letter in a statement as a “capitulation to the White House political machine that has unnecessarily delayed the project for almost five years.”

Pyle criticized the U.S. government too, saying: "At the end of the day, White House officials are more concerned about cutting a deal with environmental extremists than they are with the Canadian prime minister.”

Meanwhile TransCanada Corp., which proposed the controversial Keystone XL project, released a more hopeful statement:

“Despite three years of misinformation, an overwhelming majority of Americans continue to support Keystone XL because they understand that this is a choice about where to get oil from: a secure, stable and reliable ally in Canada, or continue to import higher-priced, ‘conflict oil’ from the Middle East and Venezuela – where American values and interests are not shared or respected.”

A spokesman for Harper declined to comment on the letter, according to the Wall Street Journal. Reuters reported that the White House has not yet responded to Harper’s letter.
The truth is like a lion, you don't have to defend it. Let it loose, it will defend itself. - St. Augustine of Hippo
User avatar
Hephaestos
Supporter
 
Posts: 1753
Joined: Apr 17, 2012 10:05 pm
Location: New York

Re: US House approves Keystone, Obama tries to delay until 2

Postby Americalex » Sep 15, 2013 6:39 pm

Keystone seems as good as dead, if it happens it will be post-Obama and I'm not holding my breath at all on that matter. Right now it seems to be a case of a true Trans-Canada East-West pipeline being in the works. That's unfortunate for the Alberta-Texas relationship, I understand that they share common culture and time zone which made this a natural match considering the spare refining capacity that Texas has to offer.. But it's good for Canada in terms of autonomy and development of export markets in the Atlantic.
User avatar
Americalex
Supporter
 
Posts: 20166
Joined: Aug 27, 2004 2:48 am
Location: Quebec

Re: US House approves Keystone, Obama tries to delay until 2

Postby Hephaestos » Sep 16, 2013 11:48 am

Americalex wrote:Keystone seems as good as dead, if it happens it will be post-Obama and I'm not holding my breath at all on that matter. Right now it seems to be a case of a true Trans-Canada East-West pipeline being in the works. That's unfortunate for the Alberta-Texas relationship, I understand that they share common culture and time zone which made this a natural match considering the spare refining capacity that Texas has to offer.. But it's good for Canada in terms of autonomy and development of export markets in the Atlantic.


It will indeed be an economic goldmine for Canada to have a TransCanada pipeline entirely within its sovereign territory, however it would also be a severe blow to our hopes for annexation as deeper economic integration is vital to bringing us closer to union and a west coast pipeline would be heading in the opposite direction. We have that Marxist tyrant illegally occupying the White House to thank for that. I pray that Rand Paul or Ted Cruz win in 2016 otherwise America is finished.
The truth is like a lion, you don't have to defend it. Let it loose, it will defend itself. - St. Augustine of Hippo
User avatar
Hephaestos
Supporter
 
Posts: 1753
Joined: Apr 17, 2012 10:05 pm
Location: New York

Re: US House approves Keystone, Obama tries to delay until 2

Postby Americalex » Sep 21, 2013 1:17 pm

Hephaestos wrote:It will indeed be an economic goldmine for Canada to have a TransCanada pipeline entirely within its sovereign territory, however it would also be a severe blow to our hopes for annexation as deeper economic integration is vital to bringing us closer to union and a west coast pipeline would be heading in the opposite direction.

That part is certainly true,

But with Canada you never know, the same environmental mob rule groups will pressure us here to endorse their same retarded policy of non-growth, that crowd is not a US only phenomenon. If they had their way we'd live without electricity or toilet paper basically. Mankind haters.

So maybe it will get scuttled here too :D
User avatar
Americalex
Supporter
 
Posts: 20166
Joined: Aug 27, 2004 2:48 am
Location: Quebec

Re: US House approves Keystone, Obama tries to delay until 2

Postby Hephaestos » Sep 22, 2013 10:45 pm

Americalex wrote:That part is certainly true,

But with Canada you never know, the same environmental mob rule groups will pressure us here to endorse their same retarded policy of non-growth, that crowd is not a US only phenomenon. If they had their way we'd live without electricity or toilet paper basically. Mankind haters.

So maybe it will get scuttled here too :D


Oh yeah I heard about that too, the BC pipeline has it's own eco-fascist enemies. Looks like greenies are a universal cancer. What a shame, they have moved far beyond advocating a return to primitivism and are now pushing for human extinction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_ ... n_movement

They even have their own website here,

http://vhemt.org/

Their motto is "May we live long and die out" which to me sounds like something Lucifer would say.
The truth is like a lion, you don't have to defend it. Let it loose, it will defend itself. - St. Augustine of Hippo
User avatar
Hephaestos
Supporter
 
Posts: 1753
Joined: Apr 17, 2012 10:05 pm
Location: New York

Re: US House approves Keystone, Obama tries to delay until 2

Postby Bayowolf » Sep 23, 2013 7:42 am

Hephaestos wrote:
Americalex wrote:That part is certainly true,

But with Canada you never know, the same environmental mob rule groups will pressure us here to endorse their same retarded policy of non-growth, that crowd is not a US only phenomenon. If they had their way we'd live without electricity or toilet paper basically. Mankind haters.

So maybe it will get scuttled here too :D


Oh yeah I heard about that too, the BC pipeline has it's own eco-fascist enemies. Looks like greenies are a universal cancer. What a shame, they have moved far beyond advocating a return to primitivism and are now pushing for human extinction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_ ... n_movement

They even have their own website here,

http://vhemt.org/

Their motto is "May we live long and die out" which to me sounds like something Lucifer would say.

You're using the oldest trick in the book--I happen to know; I have a copy of the book here right next to my computer. Taking the example of the most ludicrous, most morally indefensible, the most extreme element of the environmentalist movement and using it to characterize the entire movement is the oldest trick in the book.

Or, maybe...just maybe, you don't (because you can't) even recognize VHEMT as extreme. You are yourself so far out in cloud koo-koo land that, to you, VHEMT are just ordinary folks who happen to take a different political stance than you do. To you, they're not crazy at all; they're...um...just different.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :mrgreen:
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
~~Sir Winston O'Boogie

"Free your mind and your ass will follow"
~~George Clinton
User avatar
Bayowolf
Supporter
 
Posts: 1652
Joined: Jun 10, 2008 1:24 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: US House approves Keystone, Obama tries to delay until 2

Postby Americalex » Sep 23, 2013 3:36 pm

Key word: voluntary.

If it's their thing, go for it. To qualify as extremist they'd have to want to impose their self-obliterating view on everybody else. It's natural that they'd see such effacement as unproblematic, they most certainly have a humanist outlook on reality. But from my religious perspective, it's completely unsound as we perpetuate our incarnations through procreation.
User avatar
Americalex
Supporter
 
Posts: 20166
Joined: Aug 27, 2004 2:48 am
Location: Quebec

Re: US House approves Keystone, Obama tries to delay until 2

Postby Hephaestos » Sep 24, 2013 12:00 am

Bayowolf, they might not be representative of the environmentalist movement as a whole but the failure of greenies to call out and forcefully condemn these vile people with their evil ideas constitutes a bankruptcy of moral clarity. It's also hypocritical as the left is always demanding that conservatives go on witch hunts for imaginary "racists" in our ranks while staying totally silent here. And to Alex, that they demand "voluntary" human extinction rather than forced does kind of lessen the mortal danger (not completely eliminates it though, they still have abortion as their primary human culling method) they pose to humanity but human extinction voluntary or not as a solution to environmental problems still strikes me as extreme.
The truth is like a lion, you don't have to defend it. Let it loose, it will defend itself. - St. Augustine of Hippo
User avatar
Hephaestos
Supporter
 
Posts: 1753
Joined: Apr 17, 2012 10:05 pm
Location: New York

Next

Return to Debate

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests