Interesting opinion of what would happen if Qubec left

Interesting opinion of what would happen if Qubec left

Postby logic » Aug 16, 2013 8:08 pm

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Re: Interesting opinion of what would happen if Qubec left

Postby Hephaestos » Aug 17, 2013 9:09 pm

I tend to agree that Quebec is indeed a fundamental part of Canada and the survival of confederation is extremely unlikely if Quebec seceded and destroyed Canada's territorial continuity. I also agree for more investment in French language education given that its co-official in Canada however I don't think its urgent to focus on Mandarin, Hindi or Arabic as I tend to think that English wil remain the primier international lingua franca although these aforementioned languages may eventually emerge to rival it.
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Re: Interesting opinion of what would happen if Qubec left

Postby Bayowolf » Aug 20, 2013 1:07 pm

Hephaestos wrote:I tend to agree that Quebec is indeed a fundamental part of Canada and the survival of confederation is extremely unlikely if Quebec seceded and destroyed Canada's territorial continuity. I also agree for more investment in French language education given that its co-official in Canada however I don't think its urgent to focus on Mandarin, Hindi or Arabic as I tend to think that English wil remain the primier international lingua franca although these aforementioned languages may eventually emerge to rival it.
Emphasis added...~~Bayowolf
I'm not sure what's the level of French education investment is, but I know that my buddy here in Arizona was born in Edmonton and grew up in Calgary but speaks French fluently. Therefore, I would have to say that the French education in Alberta should be pretty high.
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Re: Interesting opinion of what would happen if Qubec left

Postby Hephaestos » Aug 21, 2013 12:00 am

Bayowolf wrote:Emphasis added...~~Bayowolf
I'm not sure what's the level of French education investment is, but I know that my buddy here in Arizona was born in Edmonton and grew up in Calgary but speaks French fluently. Therefore, I would have to say that the French education in Alberta should be pretty high.


Well then I would surmise that Alberta is doing a rather good job at teaching French as a second language. This is a very positive development because it hasn't always been like this, 15 years ago one would strain to find anyone outside Quebec who knew any French so its heartening that official bilingualism is taking hold. The reverse process is largely completed, I have never met a Quebecer who doesn't speak perfect English but then again most of the Quebecers I've come across have been professionals so maybe that might be a factor.
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Re: Interesting opinion of what would happen if Qubec left

Postby Americalex » Aug 24, 2013 5:45 pm

The guy who wrote that piece has his heart in the right place, but the solutions he is proposing are the result of logical reaction to what he is witnessing being promulgated as part of the media narrative.

I don't think his solutions would work, to put it mildly. But I like the symbology of the Canadian leaf being completely exploded as a result of "stamping out Quebec". The author is very much correct about the consequences of this rising movement in English-Canada.

But one thing he doesn't mention is how the very same people who advocate stamping out Quebec also take it for granted that it would be okay to massively partition Quebec in that same process. Not only do they want to kick it out, they also intend to strip it of any territorial integrity.

It's a big deal at the end of the day because those folks are basically advocating the self-destruction of Canada. They are in advanced stages of socialist brainwashing which is leading them to contemplate the more violent iterations in order to achieve their desire to feel good about themselves.
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Re: Interesting opinion of what would happen if Qubec left

Postby Hephaestos » Aug 24, 2013 6:56 pm

Americalex wrote:The guy who wrote that piece has his heart in the right place, but the solutions he is proposing are the result of logical reaction to what he is witnessing being promulgated as part of the media narrative.

I don't think his solutions would work, to put it mildly. But I like the symbology of the Canadian leaf being completely exploded as a result of "stamping out Quebec". The author is very much correct about the consequences of this rising movement in English-Canada.

But one thing he doesn't mention is how the very same people who advocate stamping out Quebec also take it for granted that it would be okay to massively partition Quebec in that same process. Not only do they want to kick it out, they also intend to strip it of any territorial integrity.

It's a big deal at the end of the day because those folks are basically advocating the self-destruction of Canada. They are in advanced stages of socialist brainwashing which is leading them to contemplate the more violent iterations in order to achieve their desire to feel good about themselves.


I highly doubt Canada would survive intact without Quebec as English Canada would be highly discontiguous and that level of territorial dismemberment is unprecedented for a stable nation.
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Re: Interesting opinion of what would happen if Qubec left

Postby Americalex » Aug 24, 2013 6:58 pm

The only dismemberment the "kick out Quebec" crowd perceives is of Quebec itself:

Image

"We force you to leave AND we force you to relinquish your territorial integrity: because we feel we can."
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Re: Interesting opinion of what would happen if Qubec left

Postby Hephaestos » Aug 24, 2013 6:59 pm

So they think that the First Nations/Inuit would choose to stay with Canada? Interesting, I heard that they had problems with the idea of Quebec secession and opposed the 1995 referendum but I have no idea how they would react if Quebec did indeed secede.
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Re: Interesting opinion of what would happen if Qubec left

Postby Americalex » Aug 24, 2013 7:01 pm

Hephaestos wrote:So they think that the First Nations/Inuit would choose to stay with Canada?

They think that pretty much any portion of Quebec that votes "No" would be annexed to Canada. They'd go down to a house by house partition if their broken minds had any intention of testing the unprincipled stupidity of their own logic.

The image above does not "go all the way". Their way of dealing with the issue of territorial continuity between Western Canada and Eastern Canada is for many found in a solution they propose which would create a corridor between Ontario and New-Brunswick, effectively cutting Quebec off from having a border with the United States.
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Re: Interesting opinion of what would happen if Qubec left

Postby Hephaestos » Aug 24, 2013 7:03 pm

Americalex wrote:They think that pretty much any portion of Quebec that votes "No" would be annexed to Canada. They'd go down to a house by house partition if their broken minds had any notion of principled logic.

So they think that Quebec has no territorial integrity in that it must be split if it chooses secession? Well I can sort of understand why they desire that given my concern for the rights of municipalities and counties but don't quite agree with them on partitioning Quebec.
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Re: Interesting opinion of what would happen if Qubec left

Postby Americalex » Aug 24, 2013 7:06 pm

Hephaestos wrote:So they think that Quebec has no territorial integrity in that it must be split if it chooses secession? Well I can sort of understand why they desire that given my concern for the rights of municipalities and counties but don't quite agree with them on partitioning Quebec.

You think that municipalities and counties are the recipients of a sovereign delegation of power by the people, not devolutions of power from the state to these administrative units? Then it follows that you must oppose the American constitutional clause that guarantees the territorial integrity of its member states.
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Re: Interesting opinion of what would happen if Qubec left

Postby Hephaestos » Aug 24, 2013 7:09 pm

Americalex wrote:You think that municipalities and counties are the recipients of a sovereign delegation of power by the people, not devolutions of power from the state to these administrative units? Then it follows that you must oppose the American constitutional clause that guarantees the territorial integrity of its member states.

No Alex I made clear that I do not agree with partitioning Quebec and that does not contradict my sympathy for the rights of municipalities and counties because I do not believe that said rights override the sovereignty of a state or province.
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Re: Interesting opinion of what would happen if Qubec left

Postby Americalex » Aug 24, 2013 7:14 pm

You see the problem in English-Canada (and everywhere else in the West including Quebec) since the secular-humanist take-over of society is the dumbing down resulting from the suppression of this kind of conceptual education of the citizenry. Most people have no clue about these notions so they go about floating in their emotionalism to navigate the issues, unequipped -sometimes willfully because they prefer the shield of ignorance to justify their inequities- with those principles which nonetheless served as the founding pillars of our sovereign countries.
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Re: Interesting opinion of what would happen if Qubec left

Postby Hephaestos » Aug 24, 2013 7:17 pm

Americalex wrote:You see the problem in English-Canada (and everywhere else in the West including Quebec) since the secular-humanist take-over of society is the dumbing down resulting from the suppression of this kind of conceptual education of the citizenry. Most people have no clue about these notions so they go about floating in their emotionalism to navigate the issues, unequipped -sometimes willfully because they prefer the shield of ignorance to justify their inequities- with those principles which nonetheless served as the founding pillars of our sovereign countries.

It happened here too, hardly anybody knows anything about the Constitution since liberals began attacking civics classes beginning in the 1960s, now everybody relies on raw emotionalism which a predator like Obama preys upon quite perniciously.
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Re: Interesting opinion of what would happen if Qubec left

Postby Americalex » Aug 24, 2013 7:20 pm

Hephaestos wrote:It happened here too, hardly anybody knows anything about the Constitution since liberals began attacking civics classes beginning in the 1960s, now everybody relies on raw emotionalism which a predator like Obama preys upon quite perniciously.

"Let's piss all over mankind and rob it of its potential and destiny.. because fuck God." - Anti-Theist Humanist voice
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Re: Interesting opinion of what would happen if Qubec left

Postby Hephaestos » Aug 24, 2013 7:22 pm

Americalex wrote:"Let's piss all over mankind and rob it of its potential and destiny.. because fuck God." - Anti-Theist Humanist voice


The advice of Satan indeed. Disobedience to God is at the root of all our present social crises whether it be the demise of traditional morality or impending Islamization.
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Re: Interesting opinion of what would happen if Qubec left

Postby Lord Don-Jam » Aug 27, 2013 10:50 am

Americalex, to play devil's advocate, what if you get a situation like what happened in Northern Ireland in the 1910s/1920s? Were a goodly majority of those living in one area, such as say Northern Québec, refuse point blank to accept it? How do you force them to without killing half of them? You also have the added problem in Québec that it would likely not just be one area and so if you move ageist one of them the rest will go up in flames too.
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Re: Interesting opinion of what would happen if Qubec left

Postby Americalex » Aug 27, 2013 11:14 am

Lord Don-Jam wrote:Americalex, to play devil's advocate, what if you get a situation like what happened in Northern Ireland in the 1910s/1920s?

I saw Michael Collins and pretty woman was in it. I think the main difference is that when he negotiated a political solution involving letting 'Canada' have 'Northern Quebec', the difference was that 'Quebec' was plunged in a really nasty civil war. Personally I find it very clear that Northern Quebec is a provincial territory, just like Labrador is a provincial territory of Newfoundland: they are not territories of Canada. And territories do not exercise direct sovereignty due to their lack of population relative to the immense size: they would be unable to govern themselves independently. The equivalent of Northern Ireland in Quebec is actually Montreal and the Western chunk that connects it to Ontario: large population mostly unfavorable to the separation project.

Here's your Northern Ireland:

Image

Lord Don-Jam wrote:Were a goodly majority of those living in one area, such as say Northern Québec, refuse point blank to accept it? How do you force them to without killing half of them?

Aside from adopting a "give up land to achieve peace" attitude as Israel does, the best way for Quebec to protect its territorial integrity while convincing members of its minorities and first nations to support a political project of separation from Canada while ensuring that Canada can't impose partition by force on Quebec is for Quebec to seek immediate American statehood as part of the separation attempt.

Lord Don-Jam wrote:You also have the added problem in Québec that it would likely not just be one area and so if you move ageist one of them the rest will go up in flames too.

Good luck to those who think they can bully Quebec if Quebec becomes an American state.

In essence it is the greedy unprincipled socialists who revel in the notion of imposing a dismemberment of Quebec through partition who will push Quebecers towards the pragmatism of preferring sovereign annexation to independence: they leave us no choice basically. And I know for a fact that most anti-quebec haters would much prefer to see an Independent Quebec than an American Quebec, to them Quebec joining the USA would be the ultimate insult: but who cares what they think since these fucks hate us no matter what and wish us ill anyway.

Seriously it is NOT in the interest of English-Canada to cause internal strife in Quebec, we control the Saint-Lawrence river whose access they depend on for their economic activity. Causing a civil war in Quebec by fomenting revolt among all types of subversive elements would inject chaos into an otherwise civilized situation, chaos that would destabilize all of North America and undermine the interests of everybody in North America, not just Quebec. It is in everybody's best interest for any separation to occur democratically and through multilateral negotiations leading to mutually accepted agreement. An amicable divorce.
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Re: Interesting opinion of what would happen if Qubec left

Postby Lord Don-Jam » Aug 27, 2013 12:06 pm

I don’t knew know where to began Americalex.

We weren’t talking about US Statehood for Quebec, only independence. Adding US Statehood opens up a whole other can of worms (such as the fact that it the rest of Canada may will opted to join the US at the same time or that the joining the US would give dissenters certain guarantees about their rights that they, no matter how offensive the rest of Quebec finds it, do not seem to trust the rest of Quebec to respect in an independent Quebec).

You don’t seem to know or understand what happened in Northern Ireland (the Irish Republic- the mostly slif-declared revolutionary government at the time- did not let the UK ‘have Northern Ireland’, it was the Irish of the North who would not ‘give’ themselves nor allow themselves to be ‘given’ to the Irish Republic).

You really think that Northern Quebec would be unable to govern itselve?
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Re: Interesting opinion of what would happen if Qubec left

Postby Americalex » Aug 27, 2013 12:13 pm

Lord Don-Jam wrote:I don’t knew know where to began Americalex.

We weren’t talking about US Statehood for Quebec, only independence. Adding US Statehood opens up a whole other can of worms (such as the fact that it the rest of Canada may will opted to join the US at the same time or that the joining the US would give dissenters certain guarantees about their rights that they, no matter how offensive the rest of Quebec finds it, do not seem to trust the rest of Quebec to respect in an independent Quebec).

No we are talking about the separation of Quebec from Canada, not independence. Independence is just one of the possible outcomes of separation: check the thread name.

Lord Don-Jam wrote:You don’t seem to know or understand what happened in Northern Ireland (the Irish Republic- the mostly slif-declared revolutionary government at the time- did not let the UK ‘have Northern Ireland’, it was the Irish of the North who would not ‘give’ themselves nor allow themselves to be ‘given’ to the Irish Republic).

It is Michael Collins who signed a peace deal with the UK that recognized their sovereignty over North Ireland. He got murdered by his buddies for doing that, but the reason he did it was so that the stupidity of civil war would end, and that the Irish people could get on with the project of actually building their own country. In what way is this not true? In the way that you are an Orangist sympathizer as a result of your anti-catholic denomination, because it disrupts their narrative of self-gratification/glorification?



Lord Don-Jam wrote:You really think that Northern Quebec would be unable to govern itselve?

A population of 40 thousand people exercising effective sovereign government over an area way larger than all of France, are you fucking kidding? Good luck to them against those Russian strategic bombers I guess. :roll:
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