Why Canada and America Should Become One Country

Why Canada and America Should Become One Country

Postby -MM- » Sep 29, 2013 12:34 pm

Merger of the Century: Why Canada and America Should Become One Country is the name of a book just released by Canadian-American Diane Francis

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/201 ... -problems/

http://dianefrancis.com/books/order-mer ... century-2/

There are things I disagree with her (Canadian born citizens having Universal Health Care in all 50 states whereas American born citizens don't, Quebec becoming a commonwealth instead of a state, paying each Canadian citizen 500K for this to happen lol). I also thought the US debt was $17T, not $12T and I'm pretty sure PR residents cannot vote for president and do not pay federal income tax (SS and medicare only). However, I also think the guy reviewing her book is extremely close minded. I also think neither Canadians nor Americans would want such a thing to happen at this point given the economic condition both countries are in. You can see from the comments that no one really wants it. Goes to show if an annexation of Canada by the US ever happens - and is what the people want - then extreme conditions must be met, i.e. Canada needs the US military to defend its territory or Canada is in terrible economic condition while the US' is in great condition, something like the US Dollar going back to 1.5/1 ratio with the CA dollar, or even a historical 2/1 or 3/1 ratio.

Her main reason for a merger is that Canada is primed for a takeover and they might as well control how that takeover goes. She's also worried about a US-China cold war. The book could be a decent read, though I obviously haven't read it.
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Re: Why Canada and America Should Become One Country

Postby Windwalker » Sep 29, 2013 4:28 pm

I have to agree that her idea of paying every Canadian 500k to join the US is laughable. She is basing this on the idea that that is the raw value of Canada's land and resources. If we are going to do it that way, why not also add up the value of all of the US land and resources and make the Canadians pay us, too?

What I could see happening along the same lines, however, would be the US Federal Government purchasing all Canadian Federal lands and properties (including Canada's territories) and disbursing the payout to each Province according to their share (however that would be determined.) I would imagine Canada's Federal Government is likely worth at least several hundred billion, if not a few trillion dollars. If the Provinces then choose to spend this money as a cash payout to individuals, then so be it.
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Re: Why Canada and America Should Become One Country

Postby -MM- » Oct 02, 2013 9:07 pm

Reading the comments, two things become clear to me:

1) A lot of people do not understand how state laws work in the US. If provinces of Canada became states, they could easily make extremely hard to buy guns, with thorough background checks for all types of guns, in the state as opposed to some place like TX or FL where it's really easy. Likewise, health care could be enforced by the state and french could be the defacto language of Quebec. For example, weed will be legal in CO and WA, but illegal everywhere else. If it passes, HI will be the 1st state to adopt the metric system. Many states do not have an official language and have more than one defacto language. Gay marriage is legal in some states, but not others. Tax varies by state, etc
2) No offense to our Canadian friends on this board, but lots of those comments give me the impression that Canadians have a sense of self entitlement, of superiority. The arrogance I read in some of those comments were ridiculous. They seem to want to imply that America is inferior to Canada and suggesting otherwise is ridiculous. They seem to be blind to the economic problems in their own country while making sure to say America is broke or a sinking ship, without realizing that if America does sink it'll greatly affect Canada as well. Just to be clear, I'm not saying the US is in a good economic position, by any means. That's not all though, some comments mentioned, "the Quebec problem". I'm not exaggerating when I say that when I read those, it immediately reminded me of "the jewish problem". Not suggesting that Canadians are anywhere near that bad or anything like that, but those comments reminded me of that. I knew there was some issues between quebecois and folks from other provinces, but I didn't know they referred to Quebec as "the Quebec problem"

Seems to me that, the only way there would ever be acceptance from Canadians for a possible annexation would be if the US economy picks up while at the same time the real estate market in Canada indeed does crash, and the crash is worse than the US one. If and when the Canadian dollar is worth less than 50 cents to the US dollar, then maybe the people there would be more open to the idea. I believer Americans would be a lot more open from the beginning.
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Re: Why Canada and America Should Become One Country

Postby Bearsy » Oct 03, 2013 1:24 am

Canada and USA already enjoy strong mutual economic benefits. There is relatively little economic gain for Canada by joining the USA. The most prominent argument of this annexation "movement" is the economic one. But I find it the weakest one.

Its weak because Canada enjoys a healthy economy. We have our ups and downs and so does America, but its not in shambles or something. And the argument is also weak because, what country merges with another over economics? If Canada's economy did crash and the opportunity presented itself for a UNA merger, the economic argument would be the easy sell. The much harder sell would be to convince Canadians they are one and the same people as Americans. Inversely in such a scenario the whole idea might then become a hard sell to Americans because why would they want to own a terrible Canadian economy?

If Poland's economy crashed who would suggest it should merge with Germany? Why would Germans want a crashed economy and why would Poland want to lose sovereignty?
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Re: Why Canada and America Should Become One Country

Postby BC_Dan » Oct 04, 2013 6:41 am

“You can see from the comments that no one really wants it.”

It is hard to read some of the comments that inevitably appear whenever this subject is discussed without concluding that folks on both sides of the border are so stupid that it is a miracle that Canada and the US exist at all, and that if the average person had their way, this continent would be divided into scores of tribal territories engaged in endless warfare. But in fairness, the ‘comments’ on the Post mostly originate from a gaggle of leftist anti-western neo-luddites whose lives seem to be centered on a desire to see these countries fail. Any talk of making Canada and the US stronger is anathema to them.

I’ll have to read her book to get a better understanding of her reasoning, but it seems that she has placed a rather offensive emphasis on money; about what you’d expect from the Editor at Large of the Financial Post, but how uninspiring. A union of the states and provinces should be approached as a marriage, not as a corporate merger. Not what's in it for me, but for us all.
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Re: Why Canada and America Should Become One Country

Postby Bearsy » Oct 04, 2013 10:59 am

You can't be that cynical lol. The idiots will always be over represented online.
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Re: Why Canada and America Should Become One Country

Postby Occident » Oct 04, 2013 11:31 pm

Bearsy wrote:If Poland's economy crashed who would suggest it should merge with Germany? Why would Germans want a crashed economy and why would Poland want to lose sovereignty?



Poland and Germany should unite, says Lech Walesa

Lech Walesa has called for Poland to unite with Germany to form one European state, despite the bloody history between the two countries.

The Nobel Peace Prize winner and former Polish president, whose Solidarity trade union played a key role in bringing an end to the Cold War, said the world had changed and needed new ways of organising itself.

“We need to expand economic and defence co-operation and other structures to create one state from Poland and Germany in Europe,” he said.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... alesa.html
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Re: Why Canada and America Should Become One Country

Postby Bearsy » Oct 05, 2013 12:34 am

wow and that was just a few days ago.

Good thing the former prime minister has my back

But not all take his words seriously. “This is one of Lech Walesa’s exotic ideas,” said Jozef Oleksy, a former Polish prime minister. “He has the role of someone who stimulates ideas, sometimes annoying ideas, but I don’t attach much importance to this one.
“You need a strategy of close co-operation between two countries because this is necessary and beneficial, but two states becoming one country is something else.”


I picked 2 random countries. i could have said poland and russia.
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Re: Why Canada and America Should Become One Country

Postby MrSG1 » Oct 05, 2013 7:09 pm

Germany and Poland are two seperate countries and can simply remain that way. However, the relations between Germany and Poland, which are two culturally different nations, they speak different languages even, are much stronger than ones between Canada and the US.

Just looking at Germany and Poland, although through another complex layer of bureaucracy and what not, a citizen of either country could cross the Germany-Poland border without even seeing one border guard, thanks in part to the Schengen Agreement. Wasn't Poland under the iron curtain not so long ago? Since they are both EU countries, that means Germany and Poland have complete free movement of labor.

Contrasting with Canada and the US, what do they have between them. It started with the Canada-US Free Trade Agreement, but then someone had to supersede that agreement and had to include Mexico with NAFTA, which is unbalanced as the quality of living is significantly lower than with Canada and the US. The effects of NAFTA may remove US duties with products into Canada, but GST and HST if you live in a HST province like I do are applied as a tax when something enters Canada. NAFTA allows people to temporarily work in other countries, but only certain professionals can, and only if they have a guaranteed job offer waiting on other side. This is called TN status, and border officials love to harass people with TN status.....cause they can.
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Re: Why Canada and America Should Become One Country

Postby Occident » Oct 06, 2013 3:57 am

Bearsy wrote:wow and that was just a few days ago.

Good thing the former prime minister has my back

But not all take his words seriously. “This is one of Lech Walesa’s exotic ideas,” said Jozef Oleksy, a former Polish prime minister. “He has the role of someone who stimulates ideas, sometimes annoying ideas, but I don’t attach much importance to this one.
“You need a strategy of close co-operation between two countries because this is necessary and beneficial, but two states becoming one country is something else.”


I picked 2 random countries. i could have said poland and russia.


Sure, I wasn't necessarily trying to make a massive point out of it, it is just a funny coincidence that you picked the example you did given it had recently been argued for by a major political and cultural figure.

That being said, while Oleksy may shrug it off, one of Walesa's previous 'exotic ideas' was a belief in a christian non-communist Poland. He succeeded in making at least half of that dream a reality. It is also a fact that the current arrangement in Europe is historically unprecedented, where the continent has more or less arranged itself on an ethno-state basis. Multinational unions are a pretty regular European occurrence from the historical perspective (I would argue such persists still in Britain and Spain). The bilateral nature of his suggestion is also appealing. It would create a union in central Europe of two partners, and thus be far simpler than the model of the European Union. Personally, I'd like to see France and Germany unite in this way.
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Re: Why Canada and America Should Become One Country

Postby Americalex » Oct 08, 2013 3:32 pm

With Washington chronically and dangerously broken the way it is, the case for Canada joining the USA is correspondingly weakened. The only saving grace that the U.S. still has in terms of appeal is that it continues to have a higher Human Development Index than Canada for the time being.
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Re: Why Canada and America Should Become One Country

Postby MrSG1 » Oct 09, 2013 12:44 am

HDI, yah I look at those stats from time to time. And even though I was really young in the early 90s, I still remember hearing all the gloating how Canada was the best country in the world to live in. It has happened a few times in the past decade, that the US has been higher than Canada on that list.

At this point, I would say any kind of economic integration with the US from people in Canada, the opinions on that would probably be at an all time high of negativity. Forget about the debt issues for a second, and look at the way the mass media is jumping up and down over mass shootings. It doesn't take long before you find many crawling out of the woodwork saying how much they love the gun control in Canada. Anyone with half a brain could probably beat the border illegally right now by going to remote areas of the border to smuggle weapons.
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Re: Why Canada and America Should Become One Country

Postby dans » Oct 09, 2013 12:33 pm

Of course, the US had its housing bubble last decade. The Bank of Canada gets huge praise for heading off a huge housing price crash in 2007-2009, but, from my perspective, it just looks like they postponed it. Canada appears to be in the midst of a housing bubble now. (Of course, the US's Federal Reserve has gotten us into a stock market bubble, so something about "beam in your brother's eye while there's a moat in yours" or something.)
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