major annexation article

major annexation article

Postby logic » Oct 01, 2013 8:24 pm

haven't even read it yet just saw it and thought I'd post it here.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/201 ... e-century/
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Re: major annexation article

Postby logic » Oct 01, 2013 8:47 pm

oh crap someone already posted this in the scenarios section
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Re: major annexation article

Postby Americalex » Oct 01, 2013 10:47 pm

It is big, the author is an American born Canadian journalist. People in Trudeau's inner circle were commenting on it on Facebook today! I haven't had a chance to look at it properly yet, but when I do I'll add my commentary to the Scenarios thread concerning it (it's actually an article about a book she penned if I'm not mistaken). Needless to say, it is a positive event in the quest for affording greater visibility to the idea!
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Re: major annexation article

Postby MrSG1 » Oct 02, 2013 1:50 am

It should be noted when you read that article, you realize the extreme hatred of the posters on the National Post towards the US. The only level headed person posting there seems to be a person with the screen name of Brian Pelican.

Read some of those posts, ones such as invading Washington again, basic 1812 myths. The attitude and the extreme arrogance and narcissism of Canadians all over the country is why it would never happen. One thing that unites Canadians on all fronts is extreme anti-Americanism.

If you were to read the "Beyond the Border Action Plan" you would see some things that seem kind of alarming if we are supposed to be seperate nations. What I am talking about is law enforcement being able to cross the border at will. If law enforcement can do it, why can't everyday people. People in Canada are scared to death of even the prospect of "Free movement of labour" which would basically allow any Canadian or US citizen to work and live in the other country at will.

Any kind of deeper integration within the US will not be opposed by people in the US, but will be with people in Canada.

Canadians love to point out differences so much, but there is probably a lot more similarities than differences in everyday life.
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Re: major annexation article

Postby O. W. Kenobi » Oct 02, 2013 8:00 am

Leaving aside the ignorant and reflexive anti-Americanism, there are a couple of things that do loom large - what happens to our universal single-payer health-care system, and what happens if some nutbar from the south decides to shoot up a Canadian Tire?

Now that's aside from the the very poor US federal governance that we've been seeing lately, where problems are either never solved, or are actually exacerbated by their political system.

I've always had the feeling that deeper economic integration would be a much easier sell in Canada than political integration.
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Re: major annexation article

Postby -MM- » Oct 02, 2013 9:17 pm

Answered this in the other thread, maybe I should've created that here because it would have been better.

MrSG1 wrote:It should be noted when you read that article, you realize the extreme hatred of the posters on the National Post towards the US. The only level headed person posting there seems to be a person with the screen name of Brian Pelican.

Read some of those posts, ones such as invading Washington again, basic 1812 myths. The attitude and the extreme arrogance and narcissism of Canadians all over the country is why it would never happen. One thing that unites Canadians on all fronts is extreme anti-Americanism.


The overall attitude and the constant mentions of the "quebec problem" really stood out to me. I don't see an annexation happening unless the Canadian economy crashes worse than the US one did while at the same time the US economy picks up. That and Quebec seceding.

O. W. Kenobi wrote:Leaving aside the ignorant and reflexive anti-Americanism, there are a couple of things that do loom large - what happens to our universal single-payer health-care system, and what happens if some nutbar from the south decides to shoot up a Canadian Tire?


That could all be taken care of by the state of Ontario (providing universal health care and making gun possession very hard go get). AFAIK, gun possession in Canada is not illegal, it's just very hard to get and very restrictive, nothing would change unless the new state wants it to change.
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Re: major annexation article

Postby logic » Oct 02, 2013 11:56 pm

Americalex wrote:It is big, the author is an American born Canadian journalist. People in Trudeau's inner circle were commenting on it on Facebook today! I haven't had a chance to look at it properly yet, but when I do I'll add my commentary to the Scenarios thread concerning it (it's actually an article about a book she penned if I'm not mistaken). Needless to say, it is a positive event in the quest for affording greater visibility to the idea!

Yes the more visibility the better :) Also unlike many others this author was positive about Quebec joining too

I recommend people listen to the CBC interview as well, I found it interesting

http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Canada/Au ... 409338972/
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Re: major annexation article

Postby Americalex » Oct 08, 2013 3:35 pm

Quebec becoming an American state would really offer the precedent and more importantly the framework for other non-primarily English speaking nations to join. I truly think we can work things out equitably for everyone, and that only Quebec is in a position to do so effectively. I don't think Puerto Rico is really equipped to work out such a deal given its status. The key for Quebec to work out a mutually engaging arrangement with the U.S. is for English-Canada to also be joining simultaneously, that way we can really have the full weight of two sovereign states negotiating together in a comprehensive way.
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Re: major annexation article

Postby dans » Oct 09, 2013 12:20 pm

As for "some nut from the south shooting up Canadian Tire", I'd like to point out that mass shootings, which are actually quite rare thankfully, are not positively correlated with legal gun availability, that is, they don't necessarily occur more often in locations with permissive gun laws. Washington, DC was the location of the most recent (Naval Yard), and its gun possession laws are about as strict, if not stricter, than my home state of Illinois, which has some of the strictest laws of the nation, especially with regards to carry, whether concealed or open. Additionally, Chicago, for having even tougher gun laws than the rest of the state, has a lot more gang-related gun violence than the rest of the state. My point is that there's not a strong positive correlation between the two. There may be a negative correlation (gun violence decreases with increasing gun availability) or no correlation, but there doesn't seem to be a positive correlation. And, if you're worried about guns coming in from more permissive areas, I'd like to point out that border controls haven't been able to stop drug smuggling. Thus, the international border doesn't protect you from gun violence or mass killings (guns or not). If there are fewer in Canada, then that's due to social reasons that would still carry on into a North American union.

Additionally, to show how rare mass shootings are, you're just as likely to die in a terrorist attack in the US as you are a mass shooting. Of course, mass shootings (which are defined as three or more injuries or deaths*) happen more often than terrorist attacks but tend to be significantly more limited in scope. (* I feel this, the US gov's definition, doesn't match up with the media definition. There was a drug related shooting in my neighborhood a few years ago where three people were killed, so that counts as a mass murder. But, there was no real risk to anyone else, as the killer was apparently a hitman from Chicago targeting the three small town dealers that had shorted his bosses. It's not really right to lump that drug-related violence, where the victims brought it on themselves, with Sandy Hook or Columbine, but the government statistics do.)
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Re: major annexation article

Postby Windwalker » Oct 09, 2013 9:07 pm

I had a friend a few years back (when I was at Fort Lewis, WA being processed for a medical discharge from the Army) who was being released from Active Duty back to National Guard status. He was dating a woman from British Columbia at the time, but was also maintaining a residence in Oregon. He had his truck loaded and was going to go to Oregon and unload everything, then drive all the way back up to BC to spend a few weeks with his girlfriend. Just as he was about to leave, he thought, "Why should I drive all the way back to OR first, then up to BC, instead of just going straight to BC with all my stuff," forgetting that he had two pistols among his possessions...

Long story short, the Canadian border guards decided to pick through his truck, and upon finding his pistols, began treating him (a three times deployed Combat Infantryman) as if he were a wanted international weapons smuggler. He spent nearly a month in a Canadian Jail, and only recently had the charges against him dropped.

He and his girlfriend had been going back and forth between BC and WA for nearly a year, and I think he had just gotten so used to it that he forgot Canada isn't really part of America.
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Re: major annexation article

Postby Americalex » Oct 18, 2013 5:52 pm

I've come to think that the tool "guns", will result in good or bad social effect depending on the mentality of a given society. Iraq is flooded with guns and that doesn't seem to be such an attractive place to live. The U.S. is also flooded with guns but it seems pretty appealing to me.. What's different, the religion?

In any event, I think if Canada and the USA do come together, getting back to a clear understanding that the 2nd Amendment only applies against Washington.. limiting what Washington can do, and leave it up to the individual states to experiment and compete with one another about which actual regulating regime works best for them.

Clearly the places that have heavy regulation and high crime might want to smell the coffee and rethink their failness later on.. Different regional cultural streams have different ways of dealing with guns, and I think it's fine to allow them to discover what works best for them. States can have harmonized compacts of shared regulatory regimes if they want without having to resort to federal legislation.
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Re: major annexation article

Postby Hephaestos » Nov 10, 2013 1:58 pm

I noticed her article a while back but only just now have I been able to finally read the book, I've only just started reading and it really struck me how urgent our geopolitical situation is becoming. China will surpass America's GDP by 2018 and that will pose a grave threat to the Western democratic hegemony which has existed in partiality since 1945 and in entirety since 1990. Not only that but Canada risks becoming a political, economic and even military battleground because of its very strategic position. I was shocked when I read that Canada allowed China to purchase a $15 Billion Canadian oil company despite intense public opposition and against the advice of Canadian intelligence officals. Worse still Canada signed a biased trade pact with China that gives China legal immunities and unrestricted access to Canadian resources while not extending the same rights and protections to Canadian interests in China. Its about time people on both sides of the border wake up and realize that we will get overrun if we continue our illogical business as usual routine. Canada and America have highly integrated economies and that is not going to change. Already the border is becoming more of a liability and nuisance to further trade growth particularly since 9/11 and that was even before the spat over the New Ambassador Bridge. She also notes that Canada has vast undeveloped areas in its North that it does not quite have the capital and population to properly develop. I was really struck when she mentioned that Waco, Texas with a population of 115,000 has more people than the Northern 40% of Canada. The U.S. with 10 times Canada's population and GDP is perfectly positioned to help fill that void but political union is the only way this can come about. Finally a United North America would be an unrivalled resource and energy superpower with more landmass than all of South America and by far the largest coal and oil reserves in the world. Personally, for the sake of Western civilization and the cause of freedom worldwide I hope our common day of epiphany is sooner rather than later.
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Re: major annexation article

Postby Americalex » Nov 10, 2013 2:20 pm

Yeah exactly, that deal with China is one of the scary things the conservatives did. Another was propping up the incarceration rate drastically even though that can only be supported through massive spending in order to of course finance that industry. And there are other examples.

So in her book she uses the term United North America by name? It's really nice that you took the time to read through it and share some of your thoughts following that with us here, thanks. For my part, I would not consider China the biggest threat: Islam is the main concern. It should be obvious by now that a lot of China's GDP is qualitatively fake and lame.
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Re: major annexation article

Postby Hephaestos » Nov 10, 2013 2:28 pm

Americalex wrote:Yeah exactly, that deal with China is one of the scary things the conservatives did. Another was propping up the incarceration rate drastically even though that can only be supported through massive spending in order to of course finance that industry. And there are other examples.

Definitely, conservatives above all should be the first to recognize that communist China is an enemy of the west and all the sacred values we stand for. As for incarceration rates I tend to believe that private prisons are the answer to high public costs.

Americalex wrote:So in her book she uses the term United North America by name? It's really nice that you took the time to read through it and share some of your thoughts following that with us here, thanks. For my part, I would not consider China the biggest threat: Islam is the main concern.

I have not read the entire book yet, only just got started but I'm hooked already! She doesn't explicitly use the term United North America by name that was me improvising her point. As for who the biggest threat is I do agree that Islam is the bigger threat in the long term because of history and demographics (immigration, higher muslim birth rates) but in the short term China's rapid rise particularly them surpassing our GDP should be a cause for concern.

Americalex wrote:It should be obvious by now that a lot of China's GDP is qualitatively fake and lame.

Yes they do falsify and inflate many of their statistics but if they can properly mobilize their enormous workforce they will absolutely become a greater challenge urther out in the future.
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