US-Canada partisan divisions: How would it go?

Re: US-Canada partisan divisions: How would it go?

Postby Fat Tony » Feb 07, 2018 12:56 pm

US Canada partisan divisions? :D well the Canucks would be diluted the the point of irrelevance of course. Would be put on point until there were none left! :p
eh
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Re: US-Canada partisan divisions: How would it go?

Postby Nuke » Mar 11, 2018 4:07 am

Wow, a lot of stuff to reply to. I'm not sure what to say.

Americalex wrote:Could Washington be bypassed or rather, sidelined, put before a fait accompli by states if they moved to force a constitutional amendment that lets canada join without relying on congress to get the ball rolling?

Partisan politics is all a show like wrestling, and a lot of humanists swear by the feeling it fills them with, able to spam their hate on externalizations at the expense of getting completely played for fools to be laughed at.

One way to "convince washington" is to simply bring up the idea with the people who actually feed policies to the DC beast, the CFR. I'm planning on pitching the idea to them and that way the rest can simply chug along effortlessly.

Due to the current SCOTUS principle that the Articles of Confederation are still in force in respect to unilateral secession despite the abolition of every office established by it, it's actually possible that Canada's permanent invitation to join the United States could still be on the table. However, given the "Province of Canada" no longer exists, this might be a legal headache. However, Congress does not actually have to get the ball rolling. President Trump can actually sign the treaty without them, so long as the Canadian govt does as well, and then it would need to be ratified by the Senate--and it most certainly would be ratified, provided Canadian public support.

Bearsy wrote:I can't let it slip by a second time. That is the ugliest map of Ontario I have ever seen.

I completely agree.
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Re: US-Canada partisan divisions: How would it go?

Postby Fat Tony » Mar 29, 2018 5:57 pm

Imagine if something like that did happen. It would be like a small Bahamian isle being invaded by a naval fleet on Friday night. Would have to get a tommy gun or two to hide behind the door - or just not visit Halifax anymore. :wink:
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Re: US-Canada partisan divisions: How would it go?

Postby Windwalker » Mar 30, 2018 5:17 pm

Nuke wrote:Due to the current SCOTUS principle that the Articles of Confederation are still in force in respect to unilateral secession despite the abolition of every office established by it, it's actually possible that Canada's permanent invitation to join the United States could still be on the table. However, given the "Province of Canada" no longer exists, this might be a legal headache. However, Congress does not actually have to get the ball rolling. President Trump can actually sign the treaty without them, so long as the Canadian govt does as well, and then it would need to be ratified by the Senate--and it most certainly would be ratified, provided Canadian public support.


Thats interesting about the SCOTUS principle in regards to approaching the Articles of Confederation. I don't think the intent behind the language is in any way, shape, or form ambiguous. It was clearly an open invitation to a close neighbor to become part of the newly forming family. Even if the "Canadians" that were interested at the time wanted to, though, it would not have been possible at the time, Canada was militarily occupied by the Red Coats to the degree that Soldiers from oversees outnumbers the local population.... and then that all changed again with the influx of Loyalists post Revolution (although most of them found their way back to New York and Boston in the following years, they left a permanent scar on the Canadian model during the 2 decades they dominated it.)

It would probably need to be looked at from the Canadian side of things more than from the US side, the 1867 and subsequent 1982 reformations (and to some degree the other 18 lessor-known reformations) would need to be examined to determine if the "Province of Canada" in its current form is indeed still the same political body as its predecessor... If so, the invitation would still stand, I'd take it to the bank. (Plus there are issues such as Quebec and Newfoundland never ratifying the 1982 reformation, etc, resulting in the actuality that Canada's image of being a unified political body is by definition a facade.)

As far as the public support being a *must-have, that goes without saying, given the current state of things with the anti-imperialism that came to dominate the Global body-politic post WW2. The reality is, Revolutions on this scale rarely occur with more that 35% of public support in the beginning, but thats what makes the challenge of this project so interesting to me! Nothing of this scope or scale has ever been done in Human history. North America would end up supplanting even the Roman Empire at its full Glory in the long run of Human History if we could merge together peacefully. We would literally lead Humanity to the stars and beyond, starting with this meager little project.

-----------

It also might be relevant to research what reaction and official statements have come out of Canada regarding the invitation (there must be some real info out there on the subject somewhere, that is, info with teeth, not just academic-debate type stuff). Sadly, though, most of the voices the original invitation was projected to have been silenced by time. Time (and a group of upper-crust New Yorkers and Bostonians thief/traders) who had a chip on their shoulder because their profiting from the suppression of good hard working folks came to an end post Revolution. They purposely seeded the Canadian Government and its over-arching economic model with "not-America!" propaganda, out of pure spite and malice toward Washington, then abandoned the experiment to the real Canadians to clear-up the second their personal money-trail led them back to New England.
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Re: US-Canada partisan divisions: How would it go?

Postby Nuke » Sep 13, 2018 1:52 am

Windwalker wrote:
Nuke wrote:Due to the current SCOTUS principle that the Articles of Confederation are still in force in respect to unilateral secession despite the abolition of every office established by it, it's actually possible that Canada's permanent invitation to join the United States could still be on the table. However, given the "Province of Canada" no longer exists, this might be a legal headache. However, Congress does not actually have to get the ball rolling. President Trump can actually sign the treaty without them, so long as the Canadian govt does as well, and then it would need to be ratified by the Senate--and it most certainly would be ratified, provided Canadian public support.


Thats interesting about the SCOTUS principle in regards to approaching the Articles of Confederation. I don't think the intent behind the language is in any way, shape, or form ambiguous. It was clearly an open invitation to a close neighbor to become part of the newly forming family. Even if the "Canadians" that were interested at the time wanted to, though, it would not have been possible at the time, Canada was militarily occupied by the Red Coats to the degree that Soldiers from oversees outnumbers the local population.... and then that all changed again with the influx of Loyalists post Revolution (although most of them found their way back to New York and Boston in the following years, they left a permanent scar on the Canadian model during the 2 decades they dominated it.)

It would probably need to be looked at from the Canadian side of things more than from the US side, the 1867 and subsequent 1982 reformations (and to some degree the other 18 lessor-known reformations) would need to be examined to determine if the "Province of Canada" in its current form is indeed still the same political body as its predecessor... If so, the invitation would still stand, I'd take it to the bank. (Plus there are issues such as Quebec and Newfoundland never ratifying the 1982 reformation, etc, resulting in the actuality that Canada's image of being a unified political body is by definition a facade.)

As far as the public support being a *must-have, that goes without saying, given the current state of things with the anti-imperialism that came to dominate the Global body-politic post WW2. The reality is, Revolutions on this scale rarely occur with more that 35% of public support in the beginning, but thats what makes the challenge of this project so interesting to me! Nothing of this scope or scale has ever been done in Human history. North America would end up supplanting even the Roman Empire at its full Glory in the long run of Human History if we could merge together peacefully. We would literally lead Humanity to the stars and beyond, starting with this meager little project.

-----------

It also might be relevant to research what reaction and official statements have come out of Canada regarding the invitation (there must be some real info out there on the subject somewhere, that is, info with teeth, not just academic-debate type stuff). Sadly, though, most of the voices the original invitation was projected to have been silenced by time. Time (and a group of upper-crust New Yorkers and Bostonians thief/traders) who had a chip on their shoulder because their profiting from the suppression of good hard working folks came to an end post Revolution. They purposely seeded the Canadian Government and its over-arching economic model with "not-America!" propaganda, out of pure spite and malice toward Washington, then abandoned the experiment to the real Canadians to clear-up the second their personal money-trail led them back to New England.

I don't doubt that the Dominion of Canada could accept the invitation to the Province of Canada; however, the "Province of Canada" would also be admitted as one state, in all likelihood...and Canada has ten provinces. In other words, Canada would have to enter the United States as a federation-province, and then it would need to use its representation within Congress thereafter to lobby for its own division into multiple states, in order to achieve optimal representation & autonomy within the United States. (Canada itself could actually continue as an interstate compact.)

This is all just assuming that Canada, indeed, wishes to enter unilaterally. I don't doubt America would accept if Canada wanted to join, anyway. The main issue would be that many Americans would be less than receptive towards Quebec and towards bilingualism, and indeed towards the Democratic Party increasing in influence.
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